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Re: Re: FREE Tap Water - Urban Myth
Posted By: el D 16/05/08 12:00 Source ID: 0297d529-d1c3bb90
In Reply To: Re: FREE Tap Water - Urban Myth 16/05/08 10:57
point of view
 | It could, however be argued that Section 3 of the Health & Safety at Work etc. Act 1974 applies here. |  |
| General duties of employers and self-employed to persons other than their employees. 3. (1) It shall be the duty of every employer to conduct his undertaking in such a way as to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, that persons not in his employment who may be affected thereby are not thereby exposed to risks to their health or safety. (2) It shall be the duty of every self-employed person to conduct his undertaking in such a way as to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, that he and other persons (not being his employees) who may be affected thereby are not thereby exposed to risks to their health or safety (3) In such cases as may be prescribed, it shall be the duty of every employer and every self-employed person, in the prescribed circumstances and in the prescribed manner, to give to persons (not being his employees) who may be affected by the way in which he conducts his undertaking the prescribed information about such aspects of the way in which he conducts his undertaking as might affect their health or safety. | |
| It is a medically accepted fact that dehydration if hazardous to health. So any action that led to someone suffering dehydration (by venue management or promoter) could fall foul of these clauses. Since many venues are poorly ventilated, making them extremely hot (causing sweating without any activity) and all promoters are promoting strenuous physical activity by members of the public - also likely to cause sweating, there is a strong argument that they should provide drinking water at no charge for members of the public, just as they are obliged to do so for their employees. Just as with any statute law, it can only be interpreted by a court of law, laying down a precedent for such an interpretation, but does anyone here want to risk it? And before you go attacking me, I normally do not ask for tap water, but my salsa friends and I do on occasions ask for tap water IN ADDITION to and at the same time as purchasing another drink. | |
I'm not attacking you, promise...
Firstly if a venue is poorly ventilated they are breaking the law and can be prosecuted under the health and safety legislation but that is another point (even if related) my advice would be to report the venue which will most likely be investigated if you do!
But you have raised a point although you kind of answered it by stating that it is open to interpretation, as of course it is!
It is complicated! As complicated as a court action would be in fact, but very winnable in my view from either the promoter's point of view or the venue's point of view.
I’ll to keep it brief because to explore every angle would make it an unreadable essay.
There is nothing in the law you have quoted that states to comply with health and safety any self employed person has to provide a free and charitable service to anyone! What they have to do is provide the service. But customers enter into a contract by entering accepting certain (variable from venue to venue) rules of entry and as a point of law a certain responsibility to conduct themselves in a responsible manner…
Which would include making sure they are sufficiently hydrated to expend energy at a greater rate than if they were not dancing.
It can be argued therefore that they must provide adequate services within their premises but not that they should be free services, as they could reasonably argue that without charging for those services it would be impossible to continue to offer a service and therefore continue in business.
The duty of care in these circumstances from the venue’s position is that they provide Access to water and or a range of drinks for the purpose of re-hydration toilet facilities, at least one person present with a degree of training and knowledge of first aid and reasonable access to emergency services in the event of an accident. There are more but you get the picture!
The duty of care in these circumstances from the promoter’s position is that they provide the direction to the bar if anyone was having difficulty in finding it … and that would be the limit of their duty of care with regard to the problem - should it occur - of anyone suffering from a serious case of dehydration at a Salsa event because of the promoter’s instruction to Salseros to dance their socks off.
If you spend £5 to £10 at the bar as well as order a glass of water you are not the problem and you should be commended for that it is the take per head that is the problem at Salsa and the arrogance of some people who believe that they shouldn’t have to pay for the services they receive!
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